[tank03]

Piloto, on Nov 23 2007, 02:00 PM, said:

When you release something to public you must accept the good with the bad or dont release anything at all!!!
Its life! If you dont like it dont release it. Simple as that.

I'm going to respectfully disagree with you on this one.

My reasoning is that, a) this isn't truly a "public" place. It's a community of people with similar interests that depends on the members being sensible and respectful in order for the community to remain vibrant and healthy. We are members, and it's in poor taste and disrespectful to "publicly" call out another member for the work he did in his attempt to contribute to the community. If you don't like it, don't use it, but certainly don't publically chastise the modder or his work. And b) what you call "bad" is usually not constructive, helpful, or delivered in the most respectful terms. Therefore it has no place in this community. As column5 pointed out, feedback with photos or other documentation is acceptable. Unfortunately, most of the negative or "bad" feedback I've read over the years has just been a bunch of conjecture and supposition with no reasonable supportive evidence. It's just a bunch of bitching. That kind of feedback is counter-productive and should have no place in this community.

It's unreasoanble to expect a modder to have to "take the bad with the good" in order to contribute his works to the community. I 'd hate to think how many skilled and competent modders withhold their work because they don't wnat to have to deal with the "bad". And they shouldn't have to!

This is supposed to be a community; that means we should be supportive of the work being done here, not looking to criticise every little misstep.

I don't agree that one has to endure the "bad" as a matter of course simply because he wants to share his stuff. That's just disrespectful.

[NeverEnough]

The Cliff Notes version of this thread should read,"Thanks for the countless hours of all the modders, and all their considerable efforts to give us all so much pleasure while expecting so little in return. We are not worthy...."

[HrntFixr]

tank03, on Nov 23 2007, 02:25 PM, said:

I'm going to respectfully disagree with you on this one.

My reasoning is that, a) this isn't truly a "public" place. It's a community of people with similar interests that depends on the members being sensible and respectful in order for the community to remain vibrant and healthy. We are members, and it's in poor taste and disrespectful to "publicly" call out another member for the work he did in his attempt to contribute to the community. If you don't like it, don't use it, but certainly don't publically chastise the modder or his work. And b) what you call "bad" is usually not constructive, helpful, or delivered in the most respectful terms. Therefore it has no place in this community. As column5 pointed out, feedback with photos or other documentation is acceptable. Unfortunately, most of the negative or "bad" feedback I've read over the years has just been a bunch of conjecture and supposition with no reasonable supportive evidence. It's just a bunch of bitching. That kind of feedback is counter-productive and should have no place in this community.

It's unreasoanble to expect a modder to have to "take the bad with the good" in order to contribute his works to the community. I 'd hate to think how many skilled and competent modders withhold their work because they don't wnat to have to deal with the "bad". And they shouldn't have to!

This is supposed to be a community; that means we should be supportive of the work being done here, not looking to criticise every little misstep.

I don't agree that one has to endure the "bad" as a matter of course simply because he wants to share his stuff. That's just disrespectful.

Couldn't have said it better....

[DaveJS]

NeverEnough, on Nov 23 2007, 01:25 PM, said:

The Cliff Notes version of this thread should read,"Thanks for the countless hours of all the modders, and all their considerable efforts to give us all so much pleasure while expecting so little in return. We are not worthy...."

No it shouldn't, that is not why we are here. We are not here to be put on a pedestal or anything close to that. We are like minded people with similar interests.

[Zurawski]

Personally I develop my projects and release them to the community with the sole intent of reaping accolades... It's weird fetish I know, but I guess it's better than exposing my genitals to old ladies in the park. :crazy:

Seriously...

I imagine most mod developers are like me in the sense that what we do we do as a personal hobby. The nice thing is we typically release many of our mods to the community so they can benefit from the results of our hobby as well. (Read: we are typically thoughtful and generous...)

And I'll publicly admit it... I enjoy when a community member thinks enough of my work to offer praise and kudos. It gives me a feeling of gratification knowing that someone finds value in my meager hobbies results.

What steams our rice is when a community member goes beyond critique and crosses over into criticism... There really is not a fine line between the two... When you critique you find flaws and politely offer input on how to improve the product. When you criticize you attack the product and person or persons who created it, with no intent to provide valued feedback.

Personally the "gimme--gimmes" are a double edge-sword... Initially I find them flattering, in that this person obviously enjoys the product and would enjoy seeing more of it. It starts to rash when the request goes beyond the scope of what the project was ever intended to be.

[HrntFixr]

Zurawski, on Nov 23 2007, 02:35 PM, said:

What steams our rice is when a community member goes beyond critique and crosses over into criticism...

And that couldn't make it any more clear to understand what this post started as.

I wasn't flamming any one person. I talk to and stay in contact with alot of modders and just didn't like what
I was hearing. So this being a open forum I wanted to voice my concerns.

[column5]

Zurawski, on Nov 23 2007, 01:35 PM, said:

It's weird fetish I know

Woah, there is a fetish you find weird? :shok: :biggrin:

[column5]

Zurawski, on Nov 23 2007, 01:35 PM, said:

And I'll publicly admit it... I enjoy when a community member thinks enough of my work to offer praise and kudos. It gives me a feeling of gratification knowing that someone finds value in my meager hobbies results.

Oh yeah, its great when people give props. I don't want to sound ungrateful. I just mean that the props shouldn't be the raison d'etre.

This post has been edited by column5: 23 November 2007 - 01:44 PM

[Piloto]

tank03, on Nov 23 2007, 07:25 PM, said:

I'm going to respectfully disagree with you on this one.

My reasoning is that, a) this isn't truly a "public" place. It's a community of people with similar interests that depends on the members being sensible and respectful in order for the community to remain vibrant and healthy. We are members, and it's in poor taste and disrespectful to "publicly" call out another member for the work he did in his attempt to contribute to the community. If you don't like it, don't use it, but certainly don't publically chastise the modder or his work. And b) what you call "bad" is usually not constructive, helpful, or delivered in the most respectful terms. Therefore it has no place in this community. As column5 pointed out, feedback with photos or other documentation is acceptable. Unfortunately, most of the negative or "bad" feedback I've read over the years has just been a bunch of conjecture and supposition with no reasonable supportive evidence. It's just a bunch of bitching. That kind of feedback is counter-productive and should have no place in this community.

It's unreasoanble to expect a modder to have to "take the bad with the good" in order to contribute his works to the community. I 'd hate to think how many skilled and competent modders withhold their work because they don't wnat to have to deal with the "bad". And they shouldn't have to!

This is supposed to be a community; that means we should be supportive of the work being done here, not looking to criticise every little misstep.

I don't agree that one has to endure the "bad" as a matter of course simply because he wants to share his stuff. That's just disrespectful.

Its ok you disagree or this wasnt a forum! :wink:
I just dont see it that way, all the way.
I dont like bitching/wining and gimmes all the time but i just dont care. Ignoring is the best way.
As for the modders....its harder to explain different poins off view but quoting neverenough:

Quote

"Thanks for the countless hours of all the modders, and all their considerable efforts to give us all so much pleasure while expecting so little in return. We are not worthy...."

I bet we all know that and thats my felling too (as you dont see me bitching or whining about it, never!) !!
I just think that beeing supportive with backup material to help and make a better work (hey imno modder and i have tons of books!), could help people to improve the overal quality parameters of the mods.
And as most modders take advises the wrong way....maybe thats the problem, in the end.

As for the rest...when you release it it becomes public, and everybody discuss it. Here at CA, at C6 or via MSN, Modders users everybody. And sometimes that talks arent toned down as we "respectfully" do here.
Nothing to fo about it, Its just as it is. I dont think its right but i dont condem either its always been that way...unless you moderators make a final closure to it.

[DaveJS]

column5, on Nov 23 2007, 01:43 PM, said:

Oh yeah, its great when people give props. I don't want to sound ungrateful. I just mean that the props shouldn't be the raison d'etre.

Agree, we do appreciate and we aren't ungrateful. But its not our reason for being here.

@Zur,


Leave your fetishes out of this..... :biggrin:

[Zurawski]

HrntFixr, on Nov 23 2007, 01:40 PM, said:

And that couldn't make it any more clear to understand what this post started as.

I wasn't flamming any one person. I talk to and stay in contact with alot of modders and just didn't like what
I was hearing. So this being a open forum I wanted to voice my concerns.

You misunderstand... no complains from me regarding the content of initial post. I agree with you... years past I've posted threads of the same vein and venom.

Problem is... all it really does is make "us" feel better for venting.

There are people who criticize because that feel that have an inalienable right to do so. Posts like yours don't bother them because they really don't give a rats arse what you think and will continue to do it just to spite you. Souls lost... can't help them.

Then there are those who lack the right vocabulary to do it without sounding like they are being critical. Obviously with the Internet being a global community, this is a hazard of the job. Time on the boards tends to educate these folks and or their idiosyncrasies become commonplace and it's easy to read into their true intent.

Lastly there are the odd few that just are clueless... No matter how fine a point you put on it, they just don't see a problem with the temperature or attitude of their posts... I consider them our local blondes.

This post has been edited by Zurawski: 23 November 2007 - 02:11 PM

[HrntFixr]

No misunderstanding Z-man, it's all good brother! :good:

[DaveJS]

Zurawski, on Nov 23 2007, 02:10 PM, said:

There are people who criticize because that feel that have an inalienable right to do so. Posts like your don't bother them because they really don't give a rats arse what you think and will continue to do it just to spite you. Souls lost... can't help them.

But I can get rid of them.....very easily and their little IP's too. Those are the ones that 95% this thread is aimed at.

[DaveJS]

Well I hope you all learned something today. I know I have and with that lets press on pilots....