[Piloto]

USAFMTL, on Nov 23 2007, 06:00 PM, said:

Not hardly, not even close. People have their limits man. And its has gotten to a point with some modders.

Well, i think i was misunderstood.

What i meant was that you modders work for yourselfs and for the joy and apreciation of the community, right?!?
If some of you modders are sick entired of repeating youselfs with the same things and with criticism (i know i am!) its your choice to stop producing models. But i think its not coerent to threat stop making models just because i dont like the critics.
Youre modders for the compliments and for the critics, dont forget that. In spite i realize that some critics are made from somebody that could try and do better....if they could.
When i dont like some model...the delete button is there. no critics because i know i cant do better.

Hell, im sick entired of waiting for the Gripen and you dont see me opening posts requesting it!! :biggrin:

[tank03]

I usually follow the "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all" guidelines since I typically don't know enough about the objects to notice anything amiss. Besides, I have over 200 planes on my HD that I can fly, all for free, and all due to the efforts of others in the community; what could I possibly complain about??

But it does make me wonder; what is the generally accepted feedback protocol? (and I'm talking respectful, constructive, critical feedback here, not simply bitching and whining) If you notice a problem or inaccuracy with a mod, should you say something to the creator (maybe they overlooked that one thing) or simply let it go? Use a PM or post in the forum? Is there a reasonable level of community feedback, or should you simply keep your mouth shut for everything? Should the creators include a note in the README that says whether they want feedback or not?

The reason I ask is I'm starting to work on some stuff of my own and I'd want to know where I went wrong in the interests of improving my skills.

I'm just curious as to where the line is (if there even is one) about when constructive feedback becomes bitching? I suspect there isn't one though, because I've noticed some people really have no idea when they are being a jerk. They THINK they are being respectful and constructive, but they just can't see that they are simply whinging.

[tank03]

Piloto, on Nov 23 2007, 01:09 PM, said:

Youre modders for the compliments and for the critics, dont forget that.

That's my question? JUst because you share something does that automatically open you up for both praise and CRITIQUE?

I don't think it does, at least not in an open forum. It would seem somewhat reasonable to PM an individual and say "hey, I noticed this or that". Then the person can reply in private and say either "thanks for pointing that out", or " it is what it is, thanks but I'm not doing any more with it."

Just because you share something with the community I don't think that's an invitation for evryone to pick apart your work publiclly; it's in poor taste and disrespectful.

[DaveJS]

Piloto, on Nov 23 2007, 12:09 PM, said:

Well, i think i was misunderstood.

What i meant was that you modders work for yourselfs and for the joy and apreciation of the community, right?!?
If some of you modders are sick entired of repeating youselfs with the same things and with criticism (i know i am!) its your choice to stop producing models. But i think its not coerent to threat stop making models just because i dont like the critics.
Youre modders for the compliments and for the critics, dont forget that. In spite i realize that some critics are made from somebody that could try and do better....if they could.
When i dont like some model...the delete button is there. no critics because i know i cant do better.

Hell, im sick entired of waiting for the Gripen and you dont see me opening posts requesting it!! :biggrin:

Well that is a misconception, no one is modding for compliments and the appreciation from anyone. As Column5 said, we do it for ourselves, its just a bonus that the community get to use the fruits of our labor. Ask any modder here and they will tell you the same thing. I got tons of mods I have done and have not released to anyone. Some of us modders mod and just give it to other modders. i.e. keep it in house. I have no ego to bruise and do not need anyone to kiss my ass over a mod. Thank you are nice but its not why we do it.


Gripen is coming we just need an FM for it. Our FM guy is gone for right now though.

[DaveJS]

tank03, on Nov 23 2007, 12:19 PM, said:

That's my question? JUst because you share something does that automatically open you up for both praise and CRITIQUE?

I don't think it does, at least not in an open forum. It would seem somewhat reasonable to PM an individual and say "hey, I noticed this or that". Then the person can reply in private and say either "thanks for pointing that out", or " it is what it is, thanks but I'm not doing any more with it."

Just because you share something with the community I don't think that's an invitation for evryone to pick apart your work publiclly; it's in poor taste and disrespectful.

Correct, constructive criticism is fine. But there is a fine line between that and rivet counting. Then you got rivet counters that have no clue what they are talking about. i.e. some have never even seen and F-4 in real life much less can tell someone who has worked on them "how it is"....

[Silverbolt]

"if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all"
you said all
i think, if you have to critique some plane, you need to do it in a construtive critic, or stay silent. simple as that, but ever be grateful.
thats im my case, im ever grateful, sometimes i exed myself with "gimme gimme", but i recognize ,and excuese myself.
but i think i understand the modders think, to work hard for "nothing".
so i ever grateful of all modders work i have on my HD.

[DaveJS]

tank03, on Nov 23 2007, 12:11 PM, said:

But it does make me wonder; what is the generally accepted feedback protocol? (and I'm talking respectful, constructive, critical feedback here, not simply bitching and whining) If you notice a problem or inaccuracy with a mod, should you say something to the creator (maybe they overlooked that one thing) or simply let it go? Use a PM or post in the forum? Is there a reasonable level of community feedback, or should you simply keep your mouth shut for everything? Should the creators include a note in the README that says whether they want feedback or not?

The reason I ask is I'm starting to work on some stuff of my own and I'd want to know where I went wrong in the interests of improving my skills.

Feedback is always welcome but have you read where some just pick a mod apart totally? Or then the plain whining...like an example....people were actually PMing Sundowner and complaining that they couldn't use his high res skins and requested that he didn't do them at 2048x2048.....I mean are they serious?

[tank03]

USAFMTL, on Nov 23 2007, 01:26 PM, said:

Feedback is always welcome but have you read where some just pick a mod apart totally? Or then the plain whining...like an example....people were actually PMing Sundowner and complaining that they couldn't use his high res skins and requested that he didn't do them at 2048x2048.....I mean are they serious?

Yeah, that's what I mean when I say that some people just don't realise that they are being jerks (or maybe they do and that's what makes them not a jerk, but a complete a$$hole)

[DaveJS]

tank03, on Nov 23 2007, 12:29 PM, said:

Yeah, that's what I mean when I say that some people just don't realise that they are being jerks (or maybe they do and that's what makes them not a jerk, but a complete a$$hole)

Then that means they are suffering cranial anal inversion...and need to remove it from said orifice.

[column5]

tank03, on Nov 23 2007, 12:11 PM, said:

But it does make me wonder; what is the generally accepted feedback protocol?

In my opinion, if someone sees a problem and can provide documentation in the form of phots or quotes from an authoritative source to back it up, they should always post that, or at least PM someone on the mod team about it. The problem arises when someone posts nebulous comments about, for example, flight models not "feeling" right when they have never flown an airplane before. The secret is that most of us have never flown a real plane, and even fewer have flown an F-4, or F-14 or any other military aircraft, so we do our best to approximate things and its no help whatsoever to receive a lot of purely subjective feedback on it.

[gambit168]

Being flamed by the ole "dude u suk" bragade Sadly will always be out there lerking in the depths
some people just cant help themselves there compeled to shoot u down in flames
its catch 22, if you dont put your mod out "NOw" U suk, & if u rush it through BEta cos theres crowin bout Y R we still Waitin man
you'll get something like
Hey man It didnt fly like that,my teachers friends dog flew 1, and yours just dont feel right
I guess u can Never please all the people all of the time
ITs ment to be FUn for "all" the modders as well

Id really love to be savvy enough in Max to make some stuff & help out , sadly im in cs3 all my spare time (cos i lov it)
BUt i treat my SKINNIN like my 1/48th scale modeling, its my hobby for me, when i feel like doing it ,& im pleased to share
BUT only when its good and ready, no stress & no pressure is the key i think
badgering people tends to have the opposite effect than desired lots of times

This post has been edited by gambit168: 23 November 2007 - 01:12 PM

[Piloto]

tank03, on Nov 23 2007, 06:19 PM, said:

That's my question? JUst because you share something does that automatically open you up for both praise and CRITIQUE?

I don't think it does, at least not in an open forum. It would seem somewhat reasonable to PM an individual and say "hey, I noticed this or that". Then the person can reply in private and say either "thanks for pointing that out", or " it is what it is, thanks but I'm not doing any more with it."

Just because you share something with the community I don't think that's an invitation for evryone to pick apart your work publiclly; it's in poor taste and disrespectful.

Yes and No.

When you release something to public you must accept the good with the bad or dont release anything at all!!!
Its life! If you dont like it dont release it. Simple as that.
Im not im favour of criticism but i dont like seing people that dont bother to make a better work effort just to launch a bunch of "low quality" (still better than the ones i make :biggrin: ) models just to say their modders, in detriment off some hard working fellows over there! Its just plain old semantics.
The No is in the part of some rivet count whiners that make averybody sick over here. Criticism is good in a constructive kinda way.

Relesing a note in the read-me" this is a as-it-is mod, dont like it dont play it" would work too. (i think)

[Piloto]

USAFMTL, on Nov 23 2007, 06:19 PM, said:

Well that is a misconception, no one is modding for compliments and the appreciation from anyone. As Column5 said, we do it for ourselves, its just a bonus that the community get to use the fruits of our labor. Ask any modder here and they will tell you the same thing. I got tons of mods I have done and have not released to anyone. Some of us modders mod and just give it to other modders. i.e. keep it in house. I have no ego to bruise and do not need anyone to kiss my ass over a mod. Thank you are nice but its not why we do it.
Gripen is coming we just need an FM for it. Our FM guy is gone for right now though.

Sorry to disagree but some are. And it doesnt matter because its fine though. Everybody should get the thank yous and the compliments because your/their work are simply amazing.
I just think its plain stupid to be egobruised with plain old boffunery (learn this word with hornetfixr :biggrin: )

This post has been edited by Piloto: 23 November 2007 - 01:05 PM

[DaveJS]

Piloto, on Nov 23 2007, 01:00 PM, said:

When you release something to public you must accept the good with the bad or dont release anything at all!!!
Its life! If you dont like it dont release it. Simple as that.

Not true, who gave them a license to criticize it to begin with? Its free, and technically not open for debate. Don't like it, don't download it. But if you are going to, you better be able to back it up and it needs to be constructive and for the most part it never is.

[column5]

Piloto, on Nov 23 2007, 01:04 PM, said:

Sorry to disagree but some are. And it doesnt matter because its fine though. Everybody should get the thank yous and the compliments because your/their work are simply amazing.

Public recognition is never a good reason to do anything. That just makes you a politician and we know what that means.

[Sundowner]

column5, on Nov 23 2007, 06:54 PM, said:

In my opinion, if someone sees a problem and can provide documentation in the form of phots or quotes from an authoritative source to back it up, they should always post that, or at least PM someone on the mod team about it. The problem arises when someone posts nebulous comments about, for example, flight models not "feeling" right when they have never flown an airplane before. The secret is that most of us have never flown a real plane, and even fewer have flown an F-4, or F-14 or any other military aircraft, so we do our best to approximate things and its no help whatsoever to receive a lot of purely subjective feedback on it.

Absolutly Don, IMHO most wip pics are the modders way of saying..."this is what I have so far, how's it looking"....we're not looking for a pat on the back, more for re-assurance that things are ok.

[Piloto]

USAFMTL, on Nov 23 2007, 07:07 PM, said:

Not true, who gave them a license to criticize it to begin with? Its free, and technically not open for debate. Don't like it, don't download it. But if you are going to, you better be able to back it up and it needs to be constructive and for the most part it never is.

Thats what constructive criticism is right? :good:

column5, on Nov 23 2007, 07:07 PM, said:

Public recognition is never a good reason to do anything. That just makes you a politician and we know what that means.

True but sometimes i see it that way. Seem some people are modders to reach that and act conformably.
Only glad thats not the most of them, neither here at CA.

[Piloto]

Sundowner, on Nov 23 2007, 07:08 PM, said:

Absolutly Don, IMHO most wip pics are the modders way of saying..."this is what I have so far, how's it looking"....we're not looking for a pat on the back, more for re-assurance that things are ok.

Exactly! But i remind a model a couple months ago that someone said the nose was too low or curved and the modder took it personaly.

constructive criticism has boundaries and its not rivet-counting

[DaveJS]

gambit168 said it best....

Quote

But I treat my SKINNIN like my 1/48th scale modeling, its my hobby for me, when i feel like doing it ,& im pleased to share

[DaveJS]

Piloto, on Nov 23 2007, 01:20 PM, said:

Exactly! But i remind a model a couple months ago that someone said the nose was too low or curved and the modder took it personaly.

constructive criticism has boundaries and its not rivet-counting

People are sensitive to different things. So you have to dumb it down to lowest common denominator.