[Baltika]

Attention WW2 Propheads :clapping:

Thanks to all of you who have d/l BoB Campaign :biggrin:

As stated, it is a WIP, so feedback is very welcome - I know it is not perfect, and I would like to make it better. Please post any comments, suggestions, bug reports, gripes etc here. (Except issues about the fact that the only bombers you can shoot down are Do-17Z. I also have that problem. Every time I take on a flight of Ju-88 or He-111 I get my ass handed to me. Even if I take my whole squadron with me, and maneouvre for a frontal attack on intercept, I get shot to pieces. If anyone has successfully intercepted such a flight, and shot down more than one bomber, please let me know how you did it :dntknw: )

I will kick this off by asking one question. In the readme, I say there is a big issue - RAF air units showing up in North West France, and Luftwaffe units scrunching up in a line between Paris and Calais.

Has anyone actually seen this happen? Since I set this up again for public release, I have been flying the campaign, and I have not had it happen. It was perhaps, as TK suggested in this thread, a problem with my install. If it is sorted, I will amend the "Known Issues" accordingly. Thanks for your attention.

Thread link:

http://bbs.thirdwire...opic.php?t=4037

Cheers,

baltika

[Typhoid]

Baltika, on Jun 8 2007, 12:14 PM, said:

Attention WW2 Propheads :clapping:

Thanks to all of you who have d/l BoB Campaign :biggrin:

As stated, it is a WIP, so feedback is very welcome - I know it is not perfect, and I would like to make it better. Please post any comments, suggestions, bug reports, gripes etc here. (Except issues about the fact that the only bombers you can shoot down are Do-17Z. I also have that problem. Every time I take on a flight of Ju-88 or He-111 I get my ass handed to me. Even if I take my whole squadron with me, and maneouvre for a frontal attack on intercept, I get shot to pieces. If anyone has successfully intercepted such a flight, and shot down more than one bomber, please let me know how you did it :dntknw: )

I will kick this off by asking one question. In the readme, I say there is a big issue - RAF air units showing up in North West France, and Luftwaffe units scrunching up in a line between Paris and Calais.

Has anyone actually seen this happen? Since I set this up again for public release, I have been flying the campaign, and I have not had it happen. It was perhaps, as TK suggested in this thread, a problem with my install. If it is sorted, I will amend the "Known Issues" accordingly. Thanks for your attention.

Thread link:

http://bbs.thirdwire...opic.php?t=4037

Cheers,

baltika

loaded the campaign and aircraft into an existing WWII Europe load. So far is OK but about all I've done is a few missions. Haven't had any real time to look into this much, still working at work (sigh.....) and on the new Malvinas effort when I get a few moments.

I did manage to get quite a few Ju-88s and Heinkels. Use a lot of deflection shooting and high closure rates with jinking.

oh, did you also mean survive.........................? (once)

[Baltika]

Hi Typhoid,

Thanks for your comments. I'm glad to hear it is at least possible to get something other than a Do-17 to go down :victory:

As to survival, well, it seems from reading Stephen Bungay's book on BoB that it was all in a day's work for a Hurri pilot to fly an intercept, bag a couple of bombers, get his engine block shot out, hit the silk and drift home, couple of pints in the nearest pub on landing, then back to base in time for tea. Good nights kip then repeat. Until his luck ran out, of course.

At least they didn't have to cope with the 109 pilot's lot: limping back across the Channel without enough fuel, ditching, then having your Air/Sea rescue Storches shot down by the RAF. Churchill was appalled by this practice, apparently, as were a good few members of the Luftwaffe, but the official RAF line was that the so-called rescue planes were flying recce missions and recovering combatants. Easy to say when your chaps mainly came down over your own territory.

I have seen a few 109s in the BoB campaign drifting into the sea, clearly heading for home, but out of fuel. Standing the above that's not so much a bug as the fact that the pilots kept going a little longer than they ought to. . .

I am also fairly disgruntled when, flying a Stuka campaign, I get bounced by Spits and my fighter escort is nowhere to be seen. Again, that seems to be not so much a bug as a genuine gripe of a lot of Stuka pilots. . . The 109 jockeys would rather be off flying their "frei jagds" to up their scores and win their Oak Leaves than nursemaiding a bunch of slow strike planes.

OTOH, I have on occasion been pleasantly surprised when a threatening Hurri or two has been blown out of the sky by my escort's cannon fire. Seems the campaign engine can always spring a few surprises.

Toodle-pip for now,

baltika

[Baltika]

Campaign pack now updated to include the necessary SFP1 Dev A-team aircraft, and Allenjb42's He-111H2 mod of the A-Team's He-111H6.

Thanks to the A-Team and Allenjb42 for granting permission to allow their planes to be included as part of the package. Thanks guys :good:

Download and install now much more straightforward for those who have an interest :biggrin:

Happy hunting,

baltika

[Baltika]

And lest we forget, a previous upgrade or two added RussoUK2004's Bf 109E-3, Pasko's Stuka, and various mods by Kesselbrut, Charles, Kout, Geo and Allenjb42, so thanks to everyone concerned.

Cheers all :biggrin:

[capun]

baltika

For the gunner's problem, I have some variables that you can try and see if they make some changes to the AI gunner behavious.

First, I think the data ini's may not be using the up to date features of the new patch. The AIData was added like this

[AIData]
AileronDeltaRoll=1.2
AileronRollRate=-1.0
ElevatorDeltaPitch=1.0
ElevatorPitchRate=-0.1
ThrottleDeltaSpeed=0.05
ThrottleVelocity=-0.01
DeltaSpeedForAfterburner=50
DeltaSpeedForAirbrakes=-50
MaxPitchForAltitude=25.0
MinPitchForAltitude=-15.0
PitchForThrottle=0.005
PitchForAltitude=0.01
PitchForVerticalVelocity=-0.01
RollForHeading=15.0
RollForHeadingRate=-0.5
MinRollHeading=15.0
MaxRollForHeading=60.0
PitchForRoll=0.23
FormationSpeedForPosition=0.8
FormationSpeedForRate=0.5
GunnerFireChance=80
GunnerFireTime=2.5
GunnerAimOffset=0.0050

As you can see the Gunner fire chance and fire time may be tuned. You can reduce their fire chance a bit. I think the fire time is a two edge sword, It should increase the time to fire but I am not sure it if also screws up with the burst time overing the gun burst amount.

Also look at the individual plane data ini file for the gunner and gun variables. This is an example of one of the gunners in the Ju-88A4

[NoseGunner]
SystemType=GUNNER_STATION
PilotModelName=
SeatID=5
GunnerID=3
SetCockpitPosition=FALSE
PitchModelNodeName=Gun_Nose
YawModelNodeName=Gun_Nose
GunRange=2000
PitchAngleRate=65
MaxPitch=35
MinPitch=-20
DefaultPitchAngle=10
YawLimited=TRUE
YawAngleRate=75
MaxYaw=20
MinYaw=-20
DefaultYawAngle=0

Variables to play are the gun range, try reducing it to 1000 (meters) and the pitch and yaw angle rates. Try reducing the angle rates to about 30 and see how they behave. The faster the angle rate, the faster the gunner moves and tracks your plane.

Look at the gun section. Example

[NoseGun]
SystemType=FLEXIBLE_GUN
GunTypeName=7.9MM_MG17
MuzzlePosition=0.00,4.10,0.28
LightPosition=0.00,4.15,0.28
TracerLoading=5
BurstAmount=50
GunnerID=3
MaxAmmo=1000

I would reduce the burst amount, 50 is a bit too high for the MG17, try something like 10. I don't know if the current SFP1 engine supports the FE Reload variables for drum fed guns. I would reduce the MaxAmmo a bit too.

See if that helps with the bomber gunner accuracy

[Baltika]

Capun,

Thanks very much for the input - a lot to think about there. I will play around with the changes you suggest and see how I get on.

Cheers,

baltika

PS forgive my ignorance, but where does the [AIDATA] section go? In the aircraft Data.ini?

EDIT: Sorry, found it!

This post has been edited by Baltika: 13 June 2007 - 10:28 AM

[Bandy]

Some questions/comments for anyone else also enjoying this campaign as much as I am: :good:

1) Every campaign mission I've flown (at least a dozen) has been cloudless, but I am able to call up any weather via single mission. So is this a bug for all of you?

2) Flying over London, there are vast urban spaces with no 3D buildings, yet the surrounding urban tiles have dozens...

3) I seem to remember reading somewhere that numerous P-40's were given to the UK on lend-lease very early in the war. Did none of them take part in BoB? Or were they all sent to N.Africa or the Pacific? Just a trivia question...

4) anyone else try to fly under the Tower Bridge??? It can't be done...

This is my first WWII SF mod, I was very surprised to see a 109 invert, take a head-on shot at me, then split-arse it out of there, not once but twice. The first SOB got lucky and took me out... I was not expecting that kind of tactic from the AI...

This post has been edited by B Bandy RFC: 14 June 2007 - 01:37 PM

[BigRed]

B Brandy,
In answer to 3: Warhawk was the name the United States Army Air Corps adopted for all models, making it the official name in the United States for all P-40s. British Commonwealth air forces gave the name Tomahawk to models equivalent to the P-40B and P-40C and the name Kittyhawk to models equivalent to the P-40D and all later variants.

The P-40's lack of a two-stage supercharger made it inferior to Luftwaffe fighters in high altitude combat, and as such the P-40 was rarely used in operations in Northwest Europe. Between 1941 and 1944, however, the P-40 played a critical role with Allied air forces in five major theaters around the world: China, the Mediterranean Theater, the South East Asian Theater, the South West Pacific Area and in Eastern Europe.

P-40s first saw service with the British Commonwealth squadrons of the Desert Air Force, in August 1941.[2] The P-40's poor performance at high altitudes was not as critical in North Africa and the Middle East, where its bomb load, armour and good range were beneficial. The Royal Air Force's No. 112 Squadron was the first to fly Tomahawks in North Africa. The squadron copied the "shark mouth" nose markings used by Luftwaffe Me 110 Zerstörer units. The logo was later used on P-40s by the Flying Tigers in China.
and the question about the 109 inverted, the 109 had a fuel injected engine vice British and other countries which at that time still had gravity feed engines. so, a favorite tactic for the germans was to roll and dive and they wouldn't lose power whereas the spitfire and hurricane would initially lose power if they did that due to no gravity and hence a lose of fuel flow. needless to say, the Allies quickly learned the lesson.
So the sim seems very accurate to me in that respect.
Cheers

[Bandy]

BigRed, on Jun 14 2007, 05:29 PM, said:

So the sim seems very accurate to me in that respect.

No argument from me re: relative accuracy of the sim, and the comment wasn't criticism, I was just blown away (literally the first time...) by the maneuver displayed. I hadn't seen that one in FE...

Again, anyone seeing clouds in campaign missions? Or is my install buggered???

[Tailspin]

Don't mean to be a smart-arse BigRed, but you've got it backwards. Actually it was the Merlin engined Brit planes that had to roll inverted and dive to avoid temporary engine cutouts. You are correct about the "gravity" (actually the fuel was pressurized...its more about how a carburetor works) feed vs. the fuel injection but it was the action of attempting to nose over from level flight (forward stick=negative Gs) that caused the Brit planes to cut out and lose power. The action of the nose going straight down (negative G's) caused the reaction of the fuel in the carburetor to float to the top and interrupt fuel flow. In the fuel injected Luftwaffe planes the pilot could slam the stick forward without worry of power loss. The advantage the Luftwaffe had was they could dive quicker when pursued by simply nosing over while the Brits had to roll over first then pull back.

[Baltika]

B Bandy RFC, on Jun 15 2007, 02:19 PM, said:

No argument from me re: relative accuracy of the sim, and the comment wasn't criticism, I was just blown away (literally the first time...) by the maneuver displayed. I hadn't seen that one in FE...

Again, anyone seeing clouds in campaign missions? Or is my install buggered???

Hi Bandy,

As to the weather, the campaign will create weather conditions relative to the date. The campaign starts in early July, and missions are assigned at the rate of one per day - it was higher at the height of the Battle, but one a day seemed a reasonable compromise - so you are flying mainly through July and August, or the height of summer. OK, British weather isn't that reliable, but it was one of the hottest summers on record at the time :biggrin:

If you are getting variable weather on single missions by altering the weather settings, there is nothing wrong with your install.

If you are still in the game by September, the weather should get steadily worse!

Cheers,

baltika


PS

19 July 1940, Near Dover:-

 img00086.jpg (75.23K)
Number of downloads: 62

This post has been edited by Baltika: 15 June 2007 - 11:41 AM

[BigRed]

You are correct tailspin. I explained it wrong :)

[keith]

Guys

Not sure if this is the right thread/forum but I was flying the ME109 last night and could hardly control it at all! The plane is twitchy enough but the slightest touch on the rudder had her yawing and oscillating all over the sky... Is it me?

Also, I can spend all evening pumping bullets into a JU-88 and large bits fall off, smoke billows out, both engines stop, but it just won't hit the dirt! Just cruises off back home! And the gunners still shoot at me even though I must have completely destroyed all human life aboard...

Please excuse if these are beginner questions but I am a beginner flyer!

[Baltika]

keith, on Jun 20 2007, 12:18 PM, said:

Guys

Not sure if this is the right thread/forum but I was flying the ME109 last night and could hardly control it at all! The plane is twitchy enough but the slightest touch on the rudder had her yawing and oscillating all over the sky... Is it me?

Also, I can spend all evening pumping bullets into a JU-88 and large bits fall off, smoke billows out, both engines stop, but it just won't hit the dirt! Just cruises off back home! And the gunners still shoot at me even though I must have completely destroyed all human life aboard...

Please excuse if these are beginner questions but I am a beginner flyer!

Hi keith,

Yes, the 109 is tricky to fly, particularly on "hard" settings. You might want to check your controller sensitivity from the sound of things.

And, yes, the Ju 88 is a damn hard beast to shoot down. Of the three main bombers used by the Luftwaffe in BoB, it was the newest and carried significant amounts of armour plating, especially round crew compartments. According to Bungay's "The Greatest Enemy," the Ju-88 was quickly recognised by the RAF as the toughest bomber target. In the design stages, Udet had required it to be capable of dive-bombing, and accordingly the fuselage was significantly strengthened, doubling the weight of the plane to 12 to 13 tons. There are reports of Ju-88 crews making it back to base with their aircraft riddled with bullet holes from stem to stern.

The answer? The Mk 2 Hispano 20mm Cannon, but Spit and Hurri variants equipped with that did not enter general service until 1941. 19 Sqdn RAF experimented with an early version of the cannon until September 1940, but the spring-loaded ammo feed mechanism jammed repeatedly and was deemed too unreliable, and they went back to their 8 machine guns.

If you want to take a (non-historical) technological jump on the Luftwaffe, try downloading the A-team Spitfire 2B, which is cannon-armed. Get it here:-

http://forum.combata...mp;showfile=894

Install the plane to your BoB install as per readme instructions.

Then open the BoB_Data.ini file, (in the campaign folder) scroll down to [AirUnit005] and change "AircraftType=Spitfire1A" to read "AircraftType=Spitfire2B" (wthout the quotes).

Then open the BoB.ini file, also in the campaign folder, scroll down to [RAFUnit005] and make the same change. Save each file, fire up the campaign, and when you select 19 Sqdn RAF they should be equipped with the cannon-armed Spitfire2B. About a year too early, of course, but if you take it for a spin you should notice the difference when you open up with your cannon.

All completely non-historical of course, but it makes you realise why the boffins at Q Branch were so keen to come up with some bomber-destroying armament. Eventually, of course they did. Then things got ridiculous - the Typhoon Mark 1B has 2 20mm cannon on each wing, and will pretty much shred anything in sight.

Good luck!

baltika

This post has been edited by Baltika: 20 June 2007 - 07:28 AM

[keith]

Baltika

Thank you so much for your very helpful advice. I am just loving the BoB campaign - IL2 and BoB2WoV are all very well but it's nice to get a chance to win now and again!

Looking forward to v5.7, 5.8...........10.5

[Baltika]

Glad you're enjoying it :biggrin:

v0.59 is just out (see the campaign hotfix download) and I am very gratified that others are joining in the fun by contributing - Allenjb42's new BoB Campaign music pack is fantastic - thanks Allen :good:

v0.60 is now on the drawing board - once the modding bug bites you, it bites hard

If you spot any odd behaviour or bugs, please let me know.

Cheers,

Baltika



PS I hear what you're saying about BoBII:WoV, and IL-2, but even the SFP1 version is not without its challenges. Just try surviving a Stuka campaign :shok:
And, as you have discovered, those RAF intercept missions are not all that easy. . .

This post has been edited by Baltika: 20 June 2007 - 09:33 AM

[Typhoid]

Baltika, on Jun 20 2007, 09:29 AM, said:

Glad you're enjoying it :biggrin:

v0.59 is just out (see the campaign hotfix download) and I am very gratified that others are joining in the fun by contributing - Allenjb42's new BoB Campaign music pack is fantastic - thanks Allen :good:

v0.60 is now on the drawing board - once the modding bug bites you, it bites hard

If you spot any odd behaviour or bugs, please let me know.

Cheers,

Baltika
PS I hear what you're saying about BoBII:WoV, and IL-2, but even the SFP1 version is not without its challenges. Just try surviving a Stuka campaign :shok:
And, as you have discovered, those RAF intercept missions are not all that easy. . .

I was able to survive some campaigns with a very simple mod. I adjusted the campaign length.........

:wink:

[keith]

Woo Hoo! Spitfire 2B! I can shred 4 JU-88s in 1 pass! Got the lot in 2 passes! I Am Invincible!
Huge grin on my face now!
At last it's worth taking off, cruising to the action and flying all the way home to touchdown...

[Bandy]

Baltika, on Jun 20 2007, 07:29 AM, said:

If you spot any odd behaviour or bugs, please let me know.
Baltika

Hi, I'm getting the Luftwaffe airbases scrunching up in a line, something you mentioned you were unable to recreate since the release [guess I win the prize? gimme, gimme...]. I fly mostly allied, so it doesn't really affect the missions as far as I can tell, and I can live with it. I will try the fix you posted above and will get back.

RE: cannon

As far as Spits and Hurricanes with cannons go, IMHO the "historical" door is open to implement them, even though with the Spits they were only experimentally used mid-way thru with 19 squadron, and then also issued to 92 squadron (apparently despite the earlier jamming issue). With Hurricanes, the first II series (mounting either 12 Brownings, or 4 x 20mm cannon) arrived in October. As we discussed in PM's this would be an awesome squadron upgrade!

Give 'em HE I say, and Tally-Ho!!!